Another MadMonday. This time around, Jerz comes through and talks me through my anger about Tekken being labeled a button masher. We talk about Tekken 7 and the PS4 exclusive SFV. Remember, you can always submit your own rant to OurcadeGames@gmail.com and we’ll publish it.
Robyn: So. Let me preface this with what happened on twitter.
Robyn: One of my followers/Someone I follow, Curbside Jones mentioned that Black people come out the woodworks when you mention Tekken, and he never understood why black people liked it so much.
Robyn: to which your response was:
Jerz: My response was, and I quote
Jerz: 1. It’s flashy and looks good. We like style. 2. People who don’t play can just hit buttons and do dope looking shit.
Jerz: And number 2 is the biggest point.
Jerz: If I’m playing and a non gamer is watching, and they pick a controller up and start hitting whatever and a bunch of cool shit happens, it’s gonna be fun to them.
Jerz: Even if they getting beat across the screen.
Jerz: Black people are more likely to have that happen IMO
Robyn: and this is my problem.
Robyn: first of all… I wasn’t too keen on the question to begin with. He later clarified that he meant it in comparison to other fighters like the Anime (Blaz Blue) genre, but by that time the point had been lost.
Robyn: Secondly, and the part that brings this issue to Mad Monday, is the fact that people genuinely approach Tekken as a button masher.
Jerz: Hold on
Robyn: It’s not that.
Jerz: Before you jump out the window
Jerz: People who don’t game approach EVERY fighter as a button masher
Jerz: The difference is……
Jerz: 3D fighters in general emphasize the face buttons for moves because of the limb system
Jerz: So pressing buttons does more
Jerz: 2D emphasizes the motions more
Jerz: So buttons don’t do as much in the way of flashy shit
Robyn: Well that’s not my fault really, but that won’t change the fact that Tekken is not one. I’m just trying to clear the air.
Jerz: No one is saying it is
Jerz: Just saying someone who doesn’t know shit will feel like they do more on Tekken
Jerz: Think Eddy
Robyn: Okay. This conversation about Tekken really didn’t start this weekend.
Jerz: You could hit buttons with Eddy and do amazing shit
Robyn: I knew Eddy was going to come up, but cause that’s people’s go-to when they discuss the lack of mechanics.
Jerz: Flips and cartwheels
Robyn: not saying you but still
Jerz: Who said lack of mechanics?
Robyn: well not mechanics but strategy and skill. If people look and see somebody pulling that off, they think the game is easy, and that bothers me.
Jerz: Why you mad people THINK it’s easy?
Jerz: You know better
Robyn: I’m mad because it gives the game a bad rap.
Jerz: They don’t game. How the hell would they know?
Robyn: People don’t want to take it seriously because it looks good.
Jerz: Come on man
Robyn: like Tekken is the Legally Blonde of fighters.
Jerz: You sound real silly
Jerz: I never heard anyone say “Tekken trash cause the graphics dope”
Robyn: I might.
Robyn: But that’s not what I’m saying.
Robyn: The graphics are dope sure. But what I’m talking about is someone picking up the sticks and doing a unblockable and thinking
Robyn: I CAN DO THIS.
Robyn: and now all of a sudden a scrub is telling the world how they did this and such and such and it has to be rectified somehow.
Robyn: but people don’t listen to that.
Jerz: Why is that a bad thing?
Jerz: That makes them want to play more!
Jerz: And they may actually learn how it really works
Jerz: They always get humbled anyway
Robyn: Yeah, BUT
Robyn: It doesn’t stop people from talking about it.
Robyn: This is my issue.
Robyn: Whether or not it was the point of your answer to Curb’s question or not.
Robyn: People really and truly think Tekken is a button masher.
Robyn: And by default it hurts the respect that my favorite fighter garners.
Robyn: Name some top tier SF players.
Jerz: Diego. Wong. Gamerbee. Chris G
Jerz: I dunno
Jerz: Don’t ask me to name top tier Tekken people
Jerz: Cause you know I don’t play that shit
Robyn: Because you can’t.
Robyn: to be honest most people cannot.
Jerz: Cause I don’t care for the game
Robyn: Tekken doesn’t get main stage treatment.
Robyn: You don’t care. but it’s not just you.
Jerz: Tekken don’t get main stage treatment
Jerz: And you think it’s because it’s seen as a button masher
Jerz: I disagree
Robyn: I do think that
Robyn: I think that’s why. There’s no other reason for it.
Jerz: I think it’s because 3D fighters aren’t as popular worldwide
Jerz: People love them in America
Jerz: Cause they look more realistic and less fantasy ish
Jerz: But everywhere else 2d fighters run shit
Jerz: So tourneys cater to what more people wanna see
Jerz: People watch EVO worldwide
Robyn: but more game makers are starting to fashion their games after those models though
Robyn: look at MK
Jerz: MK American made
Jerz: To cater to Americans
Jerz: That’s why they went 3D models
Jerz: Full 3D for a while
Robyn: So really you’re saying my problem is with the fact that more Japanese players don’t like 3d fighters
Robyn: The problem is, they do.
Jerz: But not more than 2d
Robyn: Games sell that well there as over here.
Robyn: I don’t agree with that.
Jerz: I guess
Jerz: Why SF still sell more than anything else
Robyn: I think Tekken is competing with games that have larger fan bases based on nostalgia.
Robyn: I’m not really as good as SF
Jerz: I’m saying
Jerz: SF only on 5
Robyn: But I still play it, will still be purchasing 5 based on the fact that I played SFIIT
Jerz: Tekken on 7
Jerz: You ain’t even let me finish
Robyn: Because Tekken doesn’t have 75 iterations of each numbered game.
Robyn: My bad.
Jerz: My point was since Tekken has dropped it put out more main games
Jerz: I know SF revises mad times
Robyn: but those revisions are MAJOR. imo
Jerz: But Tekken has positioned itself as the premier 3D fighter
Jerz: And SF as the premier 2d
Jerz: So their reach should tell you which style is more popular right?
Jerz: If the fans wanted Tekken front and center at tournaments it would be
Jerz: That don’t mean Tekken is inferior
Robyn: I can’t agree with that.
Jerz: Why not
Robyn: Because I know that. I know a bunch of people I’ve met at other tournaments want it front and center
Jerz: I mean people across the world
Jerz: The collective FGC
Jerz: The majority
Jerz: Of course there is a contingent that wants that
Jerz: But they don’t outnumber those who want SF there
Jerz: Check the stats
Robyn: We never will though. and That’s unfair.
Jerz: SF top 8 consistently gets the most views of any major tourney
Jerz: Marvel usually 2nd
Jerz: Then Tekken
Robyn: For nostalgia’s sake, again.
Jerz: Maybe so
Robyn: I can’t help that.
Jerz: But they can’t help they dropped first
Robyn: That’s a unreasonable representation.
Jerz: So what’s a reasonable one
Jerz: Game sales?
Jerz: Ok what?
Robyn: Games sales won’t even help because Tekken has a large arcade following worldwide.
Jerz: Very true
Jerz: It is more popular in arcades I feel
Robyn: I just feel like my game gets a bad rap.
Robyn: and I kinda feel like it get unfairly compared to other games… and for what?
Jerz: I don’t know
Jerz: Cause I’m not the one doing it
Robyn: I poured a lot of hours into being good at that game for people to come in and classify it as button masher they way they tend to do.
Robyn: Just because something is easy to catch on to doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have levels of mastery
Robyn: And Tekken just gets pushed aside.
Jerz: Of course not
Robyn: I do feel slightly hipster about Tekken.
Jerz: But you came at SF talking about anybody can do the same combo like it’s simplistic too
Jerz: All these damn games have levels to this shit
Robyn: I want everybody to like it but I want them to like it for the right reasons.
Robyn: but.. okay.
Robyn: for real now. Think about all the shoryuken motion moves and how many characters have them with the EXACT same function.
Robyn: it’s a LOT
Robyn: not just a few.
Jerz: What does that mean?
Jerz: I don’t know why people sharing motions makes a game simple
Robyn: It doesn’t make it technically easy, but you can easily swap characters and get your shit off.
Robyn: Tekken, not so much.
Jerz: I don’t know why that’s an issue
Jerz: You still gotta see what the move do, when to use it, etc
Robyn: It’s an issue to me, the mad one of the two of us, lol, when i’m defending my game as a button masher.
Jerz: So you think that SF should have created 78 unique directional patterns for specials
Robyn: Not exactly.
Robyn: SF players can’t help that
Jerz: And then every other 2d fighter would need 54 more
Jerz: Just to be considered not simple
Robyn: What do you think of when someone calls something a button masher.
Jerz: I think they think you can just wildly hit buttons and stuff and win
Robyn: So isn’t that saying playing the game is simple in a way?
Jerz: In their mind, yeah
Robyn: Well, I think that makes Street Fighter, simple, that those moves work that way.
Jerz: Now this is my issue with you saying that
Robyn: It’s just a defense btw
Jerz: I don’t think anyone with any gaming sense would say Tekken is a button masher
Jerz: So using that as counter is equally inane cause you supposed to know better
Jerz: So what you know you can pick almost any character, do a hadoken motion and hit a button, and probably see a special. That makes the game simple? Or simple to learn?
Jerz: I always felt Tekken was complicated just to be complicated, and this convo is reinforcing that belief.
Jerz: It’s like they include all that shit just to say “hey this ain’t no simple shit”
Robyn: Wait a minute.
Robyn: It’s not complicated just to be complicated.
Jerz: I know that
Jerz: But when fans wave that fucking flag
Jerz: That’s how it feels
Robyn: It’s a 3D fighter with respect to limbs.
Jerz: And I dig that
Robyn: I don’t know.
Robyn: But the point is.
Robyn: This pisses me off.
Jerz: Like you mad Tekken ain’t bigger than it is
Robyn: 1- that it had to be qualified in such a way like as a black person I’m not supposed to like Tekken.
Robyn: I AM MAD ABOUT THAT. lol
Jerz: I don’t think that’s what he meant
Robyn: LIKE MY SHIT PLS THX
Robyn: It’s not what he meant… but that’s what started the convo. I had to go back and ask him to clarify
Jerz: It’s like this
Robyn: and 2- not that you said it, but I’m bothered by the fact that people classify it as a button masher.
Robyn: So even if you’ve never picked it up.. wouldn’t that deter you
Robyn: like. that influences people.
Jerz: You keep saying people call it that and I’ve literally never seen it said in my life
Jerz: Except about Eddy lol
Robyn: I have.
Robyn: Garfield says it all the time.
Robyn: and HE in fact knows better.
Jerz: I mean people talk shit about SF too
Jerz: Talk about the revisions like they aren’t vastly different
Robyn: I do, but I was only doing it because I was mad people came for Tekken.
Robyn: What’s different about them besides nerf
Jerz: Frame data changes, animations and hit boxes change, shit like that
Jerz: That completely changes characters
Jerz: Good example
Jerz: In the OG SF4 Sagat could use a low MK on Ryu and Ken spinning kick
Jerz: Kick them right out of it
Jerz: In Ultra? It misses.
Jerz: Animation change that made him less deadly against that matchup
Jerz: There are loads of changes like that which completely rework the game
Jerz: Along with new characters and stages and music and outfits
Jerz: But whatever.
Robyn: I’m asking
Robyn: you know I don’t play it
Robyn: but at least I’m ASKING
Robyn: most people don’t give Tekken that luxury,
Jerz: Cause people suck
Jerz: This ain’t new
Jerz: You’re preaching to ME about being treated fairly
Jerz: Like I ain’t been dying on this hill for years on the internet
Robyn: Well. I’m not preaching to you. This is MadMonday. something has gotta be said!
Jerz: Talk yo shit then
Robyn: I swore I already had. Stop fucking with Tekken. For real. lol. We don’t bother anybody. we just like to blerd/nerd out like everybody else when our new shit drops.
Jerz: Y’all do bother people tho
Jerz: Namely SF fans
Robyn: Not even.
Jerz: Yeah ok
Robyn: If I do, it’s on Street Fighter’s own merits.
Robyn: I only came for shorty on twitter cause she tried it, and nobody sent for her lol.
Robyn: I think Capcom shortchanges their fans in a way Namco doesn’t.
Jerz: How so?
Robyn: I think that things that work for the games are often removed, and I can’t tell (from a non-hardcore) that very much has changed by way of gameplay.
Jerz: Now if I said that about Tekken you would want to fight
Robyn: But you know Tekken is changing, cause we’re getting supers.
Robyn: before this it was the tag combo system
Robyn: and before that, it was the bound system.
Jerz: Well I don’t remember sf3 having focus attacks
Robyn: You know, even if you don’t know.
Jerz: Or sf2 having parries
Jerz: Or sf4 having v triggers
Jerz: Like, come on. Every numbered game has a brand new fighting system
Robyn: What I mean by that statement is…
Robyn: People who like streetfighter often don’t like those changes until they are forced to.
Robyn: They don’t want it to happen and it still does.
Jerz: For the sake of not remaking the same game over and over
Jerz: They don’t like it cause they used to it
Jerz: But if they didn’t do that then people would complain they waited 7 years for SF4 with new characters
Jerz: Capcom can’t win
Robyn: Another MadMonday for another day “How Capcom is Fucking Up.” Or Not. Stop bombing on Tekken too. Unless you can whoop me. And you can’t. You can kiss my ass about it.