Another MadMonday. This time around, Jerz comes through and talks me through my anger about Tekken being labeled a button masher. We talk about Tekken 7 and the PS4 exclusive SFV. Remember, you can always submit your own rant to OurcadeGames@gmail.com and we’ll publish it.

Robyn: So. Let me preface this with what happened on twitter.

Robyn: One of my followers/Someone I follow, Curbside Jones mentioned that Black people come out the woodworks when you mention Tekken, and he never understood why black people liked it so much.

 Robyn: to which your response was:

Jerz: My response was, and I quote

Jerz: 1. It’s flashy and looks good. We like style. 2. People who don’t play can just hit buttons and do dope looking shit.

Jerz: And number 2 is the biggest point.

Jerz: If I’m playing and a non gamer is watching, and they pick a controller up and start hitting whatever and a bunch of cool shit happens, it’s gonna be fun to them.

Jerz: Even if they getting beat across the screen.

Jerz: Black people are more likely to have that happen IMO

Robyn: and this is my problem.

Robyn: first of all… I wasn’t too keen on the question to begin with. He later clarified that he meant it in comparison to other fighters like the Anime (Blaz Blue) genre, but by that time the point had been lost.

Jerz: Ok

Robyn: Secondly, and the part that brings this issue to Mad Monday, is the fact that people genuinely approach Tekken as a button masher.

Jerz: Hold on

Robyn: It’s not that.

Robyn: ok

Jerz: Before you jump out the window

Jerz: People who don’t game approach EVERY fighter as a button masher

Jerz: The difference is……

Jerz: 3D fighters in general emphasize the face buttons for moves because of the limb system

Jerz: So pressing buttons does more

Jerz: 2D emphasizes the motions more

Jerz: So buttons don’t do as much in the way of flashy shit

Robyn: Well that’s not my fault really, but that won’t change the fact that Tekken is not one. I’m just trying to clear the air.

Jerz: No one is saying it is

Jerz: Just saying someone who doesn’t know shit will feel like they do more on Tekken

Jerz: Think Eddy

Robyn: Okay. This conversation about Tekken really didn’t start this weekend.

 Robyn: SEE

 Robyn: Somehow

Jerz: You could hit buttons with Eddy and do amazing shit

 Robyn: I knew Eddy was going to come up, but cause that’s people’s go-to when they discuss the lack of mechanics.

Jerz: Flips and cartwheels

 Robyn: not saying you but still

Jerz: Who said lack of mechanics?

 Robyn: well not mechanics but strategy and skill. If people look and see somebody pulling that off, they think the game is easy, and that bothers me.

Jerz: Why you mad people THINK it’s easy?

Jerz: You know better

 Robyn: I’m mad because it gives the game a bad rap.

Jerz:  They don’t game. How the hell would they know?

 Robyn: People don’t want to take it seriously because it looks good.

Jerz: Come on man

 Robyn: like Tekken is the Legally Blonde of fighters.

Jerz: You sound real silly

Jerz: I never heard anyone say “Tekken trash cause the graphics dope”

Robyn: I might.

 Robyn: But that’s not what I’m saying.

 Robyn: The graphics are dope sure. But what I’m talking about is someone picking up the sticks and doing a unblockable and thinking

 Robyn: I CAN DO THIS.

 Robyn: and now all of a sudden a scrub is telling the world how they did this and such and such and it has to be rectified somehow.

 Robyn: but people don’t listen to that.

Jerz: Why is that a bad thing?

Jerz: That makes them want to play more!

Jerz: And they may actually learn how it really works

Jerz: They always get humbled anyway

Robyn: Yeah, BUT

Robyn: It doesn’t stop people from talking about it.

 Robyn: This is my issue.

 Robyn: Whether or not it was the point of your answer to Curb’s question or not.

 Robyn: People really and truly think Tekken is a button masher.

 Robyn: And by default it hurts the respect that my favorite fighter garners.

 Robyn: Name some top tier SF players.

Jerz: Diego. Wong. Gamerbee. Chris G

Jerz: I dunno

Jerz: Don’t ask me to name top tier Tekken people

Jerz: Cause you know I don’t play that shit

 Robyn: Because you can’t.

 Robyn: to be honest most people cannot.

Jerz: Cause I don’t care for the game

Robyn: Tekken doesn’t get main stage treatment.

 Robyn: You don’t care. but it’s not just you.

Jerz: Tekken don’t get main stage treatment

Jerz: And you think it’s because it’s seen as a button masher

Jerz: I disagree

 Robyn: I do think that

 Robyn: I think that’s why. There’s no other reason for it.

Jerz: I think it’s because 3D fighters aren’t as popular worldwide

Jerz: People love them in America

Jerz: Cause they look more realistic and less fantasy ish

Jerz: But everywhere else 2d fighters run shit

Jerz: So tourneys cater to what more people wanna see

Jerz: People watch EVO worldwide

 Robyn: but more game makers are starting to fashion their games after those models though

 Robyn: look at MK

Jerz: MK American made

Jerz: To cater to Americans

Jerz: That’s why they went 3D models

Jerz: Full 3D for a while

 Robyn: So really you’re saying my problem is with the fact that more Japanese players don’t like 3d fighters

Jerz: Precisely

Robyn: The problem is, they do.

Jerz: Yeah

Jerz: But not more than 2d

 Robyn: Games sell that well there as over here.

 Robyn: I don’t agree with that.

Jerz: I guess

Jerz: Why SF still sell more than anything else

 Robyn: I think Tekken is competing with games that have larger fan bases based on nostalgia.

 Robyn: I’m not really as good as SF

Jerz: I’m saying

Jerz: SF only on 5

Robyn: But I still play it, will still be purchasing 5 based on the fact that I played SFIIT

Jerz: Tekken on 7

 Robyn: UNFAIR

Jerz: You ain’t even let me finish

Robyn: Because Tekken doesn’t have 75 iterations of each numbered game.

 Robyn: Oh.

 Robyn: My bad.

Jerz: My point was since Tekken has dropped it put out more main games

Jerz: I know SF revises mad times

 Robyn: but those revisions are MAJOR. imo

Jerz: But Tekken has positioned itself as the premier 3D fighter

Jerz: And SF as the premier 2d

 Robyn: Okay.

Jerz: So their reach should tell you which style is more popular right?

Robyn: Yeah.

Jerz: If the fans wanted Tekken front and center at tournaments it would be

Jerz: That don’t mean Tekken is inferior

 Robyn: I can’t agree with that.

Jerz: Why not

 Robyn: Because I know that. I know a bunch of people I’ve met at other tournaments want it front and center

Jerz: I mean people across the world

Jerz: The collective FGC

Jerz: The majority

Jerz: Of course there is a contingent that wants that

Jerz: But they don’t outnumber those who want SF there

Jerz: Check the stats

 Robyn: We never will though. and That’s unfair.

Jerz: SF top 8 consistently gets the most views of any major tourney

Jerz: Marvel usually 2nd

Jerz: Then Tekken

 Robyn: For nostalgia’s sake, again.

Jerz: Maybe so

 Robyn: I can’t help that.

Jerz: But they can’t help they dropped first

 Robyn: That’s a unreasonable representation.

Jerz: So what’s a reasonable one

Jerz: Game sales?

 Robyn: No.

Jerz: Ok what?

Robyn: Games sales won’t even help because Tekken has a large arcade following worldwide.

Jerz: Very true

Jerz: It is more popular in arcades I feel

 Robyn: I just feel like my game gets a bad rap.

 Robyn: and I kinda feel like it get unfairly compared to other games… and for what?

Jerz: I don’t know

Jerz: Cause I’m not the one doing it

 Robyn: I poured a lot of hours into being good at that game for people to come in and classify it as button masher they way they tend to do.

 Robyn: Just because something is easy to catch on to doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have levels of mastery

 Robyn: And Tekken just gets pushed aside.

Jerz: Of course not

Robyn: I do feel slightly hipster about Tekken.

Jerz: But you came at SF talking about anybody can do the same combo like it’s simplistic too

Jerz: All these damn games have levels to this shit

 Robyn: I want everybody to like it but I want them to like it for the right reasons.

 Robyn: but.. okay.

 Robyn: for real now. Think about all the shoryuken motion moves and how many characters have them with the EXACT same function.

 Robyn: it’s a LOT

 Robyn: not just a few.

Jerz: What does that mean?

Jerz: I don’t know why people sharing motions makes a game simple

 Robyn: It doesn’t make it technically easy, but you can easily swap characters and get your shit off.

 Robyn: Tekken, not so much.

Jerz: I don’t know why that’s an issue

Jerz: You still gotta see what the move do, when to use it, etc

 Robyn: It’s an issue to me, the mad one of the two of us, lol, when i’m defending my game  as a button masher.

Jerz: So you think that SF should have created 78 unique directional patterns for specials

 Robyn: Not exactly.

 Robyn: SF players can’t help that

Jerz: And then every other 2d fighter would need 54 more

Jerz: Just to be considered not simple

 Robyn: What do you think of when someone calls something a button masher.

Jerz: I think they think you can just wildly hit buttons and stuff and win

 Robyn: Okay.

 Robyn: So isn’t that saying playing the game is simple in a way?

Jerz: In their mind, yeah

Robyn: Well, I think that makes Street Fighter, simple, that those moves work that way.

Jerz: Now this is my issue with you saying that

Robyn: Okay.

 Robyn: It’s just a defense btw

Jerz: I don’t think anyone with any gaming sense would say Tekken is a button masher

Jerz: So using that as counter is equally inane cause you supposed to know better

Jerz: So what you know you can pick almost any character, do a hadoken motion and hit a button, and probably see a special. That makes the game simple? Or simple to learn?

Robyn: True.

Jerz: I always felt Tekken was complicated just to be complicated, and this convo is reinforcing that belief.

Jerz: It’s like they include all that shit just to say “hey this ain’t no simple shit”

Robyn: Wait a minute.

 Robyn: It’s not complicated just to be complicated.

Jerz: I know that

Jerz: But when fans wave that fucking flag

Jerz: That’s how it feels

Robyn: It’s a 3D fighter with respect to limbs.

Jerz: And I dig that

Robyn: I don’t know.

 Robyn: But the point is.

 Robyn: This pisses me off.

Jerz: Like you mad Tekken ain’t bigger than it is

 Robyn: 1- that it had to be qualified in such a way like as a black person I’m not supposed to like Tekken.

 Robyn: I AM MAD ABOUT THAT. lol

Jerz: I don’t think that’s what he meant

Robyn: LIKE MY SHIT PLS THX

 Robyn: It’s not what he meant… but that’s what started the convo. I had to go back and ask him to clarify

Jerz: It’s like this

Robyn: and 2- not that you said it, but I’m bothered by the fact that people classify it as a button masher.

 Robyn: So even if you’ve never picked it up.. wouldn’t that deter you

 Robyn: ?

 Robyn: like. that influences people.

Jerz: But

Jerz: You keep saying people call it that and I’ve literally never seen it said in my life

Jerz: Except about Eddy lol

Robyn: I have.

 Robyn: Garfield says it all the time.

 Robyn: and HE in fact knows better.

Jerz: I mean people talk shit about SF too

Jerz: Talk about the revisions like they aren’t vastly different

Robyn: I do, but I was only doing it because I was mad people came for Tekken.

 Robyn: What’s different about them besides nerf

Jerz: Frame data changes, animations and hit boxes change, shit like that

Jerz: That completely changes characters

Jerz: Good example

Jerz: In the OG SF4 Sagat could use a low MK on Ryu and Ken spinning kick

Jerz: Kick them right out of it

Jerz: In Ultra? It misses.

Jerz: Animation change that made him less deadly against that matchup

Jerz: There are loads of changes like that which completely rework the game

Jerz: Along with new characters and stages and music and outfits

Jerz: But whatever.

 Robyn: I’m asking

 Robyn: you know I don’t play it

Jerz: Ok

 Robyn: but at least I’m ASKING

 Robyn: most people don’t give Tekken that luxury,

Jerz: Cause people suck

Jerz: This ain’t new

Jerz: You’re preaching to ME about being treated fairly

Jerz: Like I ain’t been dying on this hill for years on the internet

 Robyn: Well. I’m not preaching to you. This is MadMonday. something has gotta be said!

Jerz: Talk yo shit then

Robyn: I swore I already had. Stop fucking with Tekken. For real. lol. We don’t bother anybody. we just like to blerd/nerd out like everybody else when our new shit drops.

Jerz: Y’all do bother people tho

Jerz: Namely SF fans

 Robyn: Not even.

Jerz: Yeah ok

Robyn: If I do, it’s on Street Fighter’s own merits.

 Robyn: I only came for shorty on twitter cause she tried it, and nobody sent for her lol.

Jerz: Smh

 Robyn: I think Capcom shortchanges their fans in a way Namco doesn’t.

Jerz: Rude

Jerz: How so?

 Robyn: I think that things that work for the games are often removed, and I can’t tell (from a non-hardcore) that very much has changed by way of gameplay.

Jerz: See

Jerz: Now if I said that about Tekken you would want to fight

Robyn: But you know Tekken is changing, cause we’re getting supers.

Jerz: Oh

Robyn: before this it was the tag combo system

 Robyn: and before that, it was the bound system.

 Robyn: so….

Jerz: Well I don’t remember sf3 having focus attacks

Robyn: You know, even if you don’t know.

Jerz: Or sf2 having parries

Jerz: Or sf4 having v triggers

Jerz: Like, come on. Every numbered game has a brand new fighting system

Robyn: What I mean by that statement is…

 Robyn: People who like streetfighter often don’t like those changes until they are forced to.

 Robyn: They don’t want it to happen and it still does.

Jerz: For the sake of not remaking the same game over and over

Jerz: They don’t like it cause they used to it

Jerz: But if they didn’t do that then people would complain they waited 7 years for SF4 with new characters

Jerz: Capcom can’t win

Robyn: Another MadMonday for another day “How Capcom is Fucking Up.” Or Not. Stop bombing on Tekken too. Unless you can whoop me. And you can’t. You can kiss my ass about it.